140151-f2p-update-economy-and-tradeskills-100915
Content ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- I agree. I can't say I'm really happy that I had to buy service tokens just so I could jump back in raid without putting myself at a sizable disadvantage. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- Well tbh, no one complained about the way runes were on PTR. Whenever I brought it up and referred to it as being slight pay2win I got shot down by everyone. But a week after f2p a bunch of people complained and now they are changing it. You can't blame Carbine for responding to what they are seeing. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- These comments, exactly. Good changes, necessary changes, issues that were complained about since Beta F2P. Extremely frustrating after all the other issues that the veteran players have had to put up with during conversion. | |} ---- At least all the dead bodies I've been carrying through pugged veteran dungeons lately will not be as disappointed now by their repair costs. lol, but seriously overall it sounds good, at least this will keep lower ilvl people happy. Edited October 10, 2015 by Naix | |} ---- ---- YES, thank you so much! | |} ---- ---- Thank you very much! These are good changes and will make many of us feel like you're listening and being responsive! Edited October 10, 2015 by j3crow | |} ---- This! Had to spent real money and about 20 plat just to get my gear back at the same level as before the F2P transition, its disgusting how Carbine treats their loyal customers! | |} ---- ---- Plenty of people were wary of rune costs, and quite a few people recognized the looming cost of having to reroll sockets on converted gear. It was even brought up in an AMA, where it was brushed off. But now that most people who are still playing have payed that cost, either with plat or service tokens, they are finally acknowledging the problem? While I appreciate the changes, I don't like the smell at all. What talents are you seeing that with? The talents to reduce fail chance and eliminate element types that you don't want help a bunch if you can't stomach high failure chance. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- This is an unrealistic expectation. How can we do raids when we're missing over 50% of our stats? That's 2 weeks+ however long it would've taken for change with no raiding. The loot is worth more than that. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- Agree 100%. They had plenty of feedback on that and it still went through. Some other absurd gold sinks are still in and without mention, even though there was feedback. It's just disappointing. | |} ---- This change should make contracts more vaulable, once we are able to trade lower rune fragments for higher ones. | |} ---- GOOD: Removing the costs for removing a rune is a good thing. Especially for Divine Runes, its pretty stupid to pay 70g to remove a rune. BAD: Reroll Costs are totally fine in my opinion. Lower Tier Runes are cheap as they should be and pure/divine runes are more expensive to work with, which also makes total sense. If the process is too expensive, to difficult it's bad for sure, but making the process to easy, makes the whole thing kinda pointless. I runed 5 different gear sets, 3x ItemLevel 120, 2x Itemlevel 80 and i used no service tokens at all. As soon as i finished a gear set completely, i felt some sort of accomplishment, which wouldn't be the case when the whole system gets trivialized. GOOD: Please make it expensive. This service should be something the player have to carefully think about. At the moment you use this system to replace fusion runes in your weapon (pls make weapon/fusion costs lower then costs for other items/runes), and class rune sets and this is pretty perfect so far. BAD: There are repair costs in this game? I never ever encountered "high" repair costs. Even after wiping hundret of times, WildStar has probably the least repair costs in the whole genre. 90% of the time, you get more gold through boss gold drop, then spending for repair costs. So you leave the instance with a good plus if you kill things fast, you go out even when wiping regularly and you got out with a deficit if you wipe a lot. This makes sense to me and seems fine to me. Don't understand, why you would change that. OK: Haven't dyed that much since F2P. According to the statement legendary dye costs stay the same... so thats good to me then. OK: Drop Rate from Salvaging is fine. You get 2-6 fragments when salvaging an item from GA/DS... so thats pretty nice. World Drop Rate should be increased yes. Good: It was obvious, that ppl would complain about the fact, that raids are pretty much the only source to get divine/pure rune fragments / setfocus. Please make sure to not mess up the ratio to upgrade the fragments to the next higher tier. I would imagine a ratio of 6:1 would be ok. So by turning in 6 superb rune fragments you get 1 pure rune fragment and 6 pure fragments give you 1 divine fragment. It would be awesome if we could have the same exchange system for set focus as well as for runetokens. Edited October 10, 2015 by Laserloui | |} ---- ---- And what do we need those rune fragments for?? I highly doubt any raider, that log in daily, has any trouble finding mats or find any pleasure in farming those. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- Runing gear, obviously. | |} ---- The mechanic of pulling a RNG level at the price of almost a daily zone per pull until you get the right slot is horrible. Not only did I not feel a sense of accomplishment, but my stomach felt ill after the process. I do agree that if it's too low, it makes the colors meaningless- honestly, it think the whole re-roll thing is not really great, but at least a reduced cost will make it not so miserable. I have never had a worse experience in a video game than I did re-rolling slots for my gear after the patch. | |} ---- I log in every day. I bought and salvaged a ton of gear to get frags, and I still had to spend a small fortune to get enough pure rune frags to craft my Waller set (class rune set). I can't even imagine if I'd have had to craft the rest of the runes I used for gear instead of turning in tokens. I'd have just cried. Can the rune exchange vendor possibly allow us to turn in stacks of runes or the rune tokens for upgrade as well? I have hundreds of those blue tokens to exchange, and I would be beyond thrilled to change them in for purples!!! | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- They need to refund money based on how many times you rerolled a slot. There were times I had bad luck and rerolled a single slot upwards of ten times to get the right rune type. That's ~6 plat out the window for ONE out of my 35 slots. In total I spent roughly 65 plat fixing only two of my main sets of gear. I couldn't even be bothered to touch my offspecs at all, let alone my third chars main set. For people like myself wearing 100% iLVL 120 gear, the costs were insane after the transition. Three pieces of 120 across five sets? Oh boy. It's no wonder why you feel opposed to this change, since it didn't hit you in the wallet at all. I have three sets of full 120 pieces, along with 2 more sets of all 116-120. Rerolling just two 120 sets cost me 65 plat. It will cost even more when I put in my GA rune sets soon, since I'll have to remove, reroll, and then rune them again. The problem is that the upper end iLVL players got absolutely gouged by the rune costs. That's on top of all the money spent prior to the F2P transition. I know people that have spent well over 100 plat so far just on rerolls, removals, and adding slots alone. That's excluding the actual cost of the runes themselves. When RNG isn't on your side it is very easy to part with 5-10 plat in a matter of seconds. That's not alright and Carbine needs to compensate people that were hit hardest by this: the veteran raiders that spent the most time and money playing this game to date. | |} ---- As i said, i have 3 gear sets ilvl120 completely runed. So thats 21 items. And i already runed 2x ilvl80 PvP gear sets, that are 14 items. I haven't started runing my alts that have GA gear yet. The problem with runing these sets are not the costs... its the fact that getting the pure/divine rune fragments is pretty difficult if you have no glory and/or rune tokens left. Other then that, i think its fine. Edited October 10, 2015 by Laserloui | |} ---- No. Carbine can make money on things that AREN'T tied to power and AREN'T tied to making the experience of progressing our character an agonizing one. | |} ---- ---- ---- You can buy the runes you want and then send them to the appropriate character. The tokens are locked, but once bought, the runes are not. | |} ---- Completely false. We brought it up, but were told by a lot of people that it wasn't a problem. Did you miss the 15 page thread? | |} ---- I agree this is completely false a ton of us complained very loudly. Not to mention the regular old 40-page thread on traditional crafting that received some responses but most of the valid feedback was completely ignored. Carbine really let us down here, and now amount of effort puts the cat back in the bag. I'll never understand how my weaponsmith with full talent points comes back into the game with only 3, and my tailor with 7 talent points comes back with 7.... They didn't do what they said they would, and man is it hard to sell good quality crafted gear when the stats look like crap and no one can tell what they will be after they unlock them.... Crafting has been reduced to a joke, a pure laughingstock of what it was. | |} ---- ---- Inorite? How could they possibly have known? :rolleyes: | |} ---- ---- They're shocked! SHOCKED to find that gamblin-- that runing gear is a huge kick in the teeth for veteran players! | |} ---- ---- There is nothing stopping you from getting to Algeroc and farming mobs for the recipe. It can also be sold by Exiles on the AH. You get to Algeroc from Whitevale, go to Galeras from Gas N Guzzle, and I can't remember the exact path but you can get from Galeras to Algeroc with a really simple path. There's this one Crimson Legion camp you can run through to safely get to Algeroc. | |} ---- Yep, they burned us big time! QQ | |} ---- Edit: Rune rerolls got the price cut as well. Should add to patch notes (or did I miss them there as well?). It cost me 18g to reroll a runeslot on ilvl90 gear now. It was about 30g (32-31 or something). Still disappointed on the whole thing after spending service tokens. Still think prices should be lower. Edited October 15, 2015 by Oddo | |} ---- Wait... it happened? The lowered dye cost? Are you sure? I still have to pay unreasonable prices to just use the penumbra dye on a whole costume. Holo-wardrobe is the main reason i play, but at this rate all the money i earn is going into customizing. | |} ---- Not true. They also implemented the lower re-roll costs (which are about half what they were) and destroying a rune is now free. | |} ---- Yeah, they did. Tried one setup I was aiming for and now it's almost half the price to dye it. Not exact numbers though, as I did not write the costs down before. | |} ---- Wasn't on the patch notes and when I checked my toons, I did not notice a lower cost. Will check again. Edit: You're right, it is lower now. Will edit my first post. Still disappointed on the whole thing after spending service tokens. Still think prices should be lower. Edited October 15, 2015 by Oddo | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- The stat comparison tool tip right now is worse than useless, since it shows your stats full runes vs unruned. This is something that needs to change :( | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- Much rather prefer to just have the option to trade my (blue/puple)tokens for the runebags they already made.. The solution to the fragment problem is not to flood the market.. Nerfing the fragments required for exceptional runes, increasing drop rates from salvages and the option to transmute lesser fragments into better ones, thats real solution to the true problems. | |} ---- ---- Regardless of the change, if the supply is increased in any way that would matter then the market is going to be flooded. The current PTR has bags that cost 500 glory and give ~15 divine fragments, while 120 gear salvages into 2x to 6x as many fragments as live. Edited October 21, 2015 by dinwitt | |} ---- ---- Farming 1 raid non stop just to gear up for the next one sound like fun Kappa. It shouldn't take nearly as long, so that raiders can have a break, and they can focus on doing other stuff. Current rune price should be lowered to like 1/10 of what it currently is. Because it is ridiculous how much it costs to rune your damn gear. | |} ---- Any ETA on this? One or two divine rune fragments in two weeks of DS appears to be a little low. Just by a factor of 20-50 ... | |} ---- ---- you got like ~13 for 500 glory on PTR. now i was told its alot less. i havent really had the opportunity to test it myself and with the rumors of it beeing bugged i will rather wait a few more days till i spend my glory (again) for fragments. 1-2 is not much but ok, ~13 seems absurdly high. i would say 3-4 for 500 glory is fair and should reduce the prices in the AH by alot. | |} ---- How is that fair? Do you even realise how many of those you need? You need 420 divine rune fragments to rune your whole gear, just with basic runes. Now imagine you have to rerune your gear, you'll need even more, and then you get class sets and you have to add them, you need even more. And then you rune your alt and offspec on both. Do you realise what kind of amount of plat we are talking about here? Let's say you need 500 divine rune fragments for 1 character and 1 spec. Let's say you want to rune 4 specs(main and off-spec on 2 characters.), with current prices it'd cost you more than 2000 plat. Just to rune your gear with basic runes. Even if you reduce that price 10 times it'll still be as much as 200 plat. And I'm not even talking about set runes. Yeah, completely fine. I'll consider selling my pc so I can afford to rune Keepo. Edited October 22, 2015 by The God | |} ---- A few guildies were saying last night they were averaging 1-2 per bag. Unfortunately this is still more than salvaging the gear so that's the only way to do it!! | |} ---- ---- ---- Please. You can't be serious right now. | |} ---- because you get glory in raids as well not only dungeons. stop beeing a drama queen sry god. im sorry to have spoken against you pls dont punish me. Edited October 22, 2015 by furoflo | |} ---- I'm assuming you are speaking of GA foci? agree to 1-2 is not enough. | |} ---- ---- That is why there should be only one type of rune fragments. One type of them will also force price to go down, as you will farm them anywhere, including mobs on open world, so obviously there will be huge influx of them without changing droprate (and I expect it will be so high it actually would have to be lowered). The current system and proposal on PTR are however gating players to raids only. Also your calculation are just invalid. Currently prices of everything rune components are inflated, because half of the server did not prepare for F2P at all and suddenly 80% of former game population is re-runing their whole gear completely from the scratch. Even with that. Who with at least a bit of sanity would buy divine fragments for runes, for 1-1,5pl/each when you need 12 of them (+other stuff) and you can buy ready to use rune from another player for 5-6plat? Without any changes in 3-4m from now 1 exceptional divine rune would cost 2-3 plat, that is 70-105plat for one set of gear (or 2-3 days of intense farming - for the whole set of gear!). Also going for MS and OS for an alt is your choice and if you have time to play alt you have time to farm plat... Since F2P I have gained over 1k plat with my main being locked for almost half of that time, ohh yes add to that ~500plat I have spent in game already... So for veteran player that kind of spending should not be devastating (not to mention you should have at least 15 exceptional tokens from 1 set of your gear or you were not using optimal runes before patch). Edited October 23, 2015 by WANDAL | |} ---- ---- ---- Runes shouldn't be as expensive as they are. Can you even imagine how much plat you'd need to rune yourself when you start progression? But I do agree that one type of rune fragments would be a better idea. Because one of the issues with current system is that when new raid tier will come, and probably new tier of runes with that, we'll have problems getting fragments. I don't imagine us salvaging gear on progression. And as I said 1000000000 times already, the worst thing is that even the most basic runes are expensive as hell right now. Exceptional runes can be somewhat expensive(well not as much as they are now though.), but not the basic ones. Before you didn't need that that "best" runeset, because it was barely a difference. Now we don't have a choice, either you go for exceptional runes everywhere, or you are done.\ And currently: Divine rune fragments are 90 gold each and pure 78. You need more or less 4 divine and 1 pure rune in all your pieces, besides one. And 5 pure in the last piece. That's 6*4*12=288 divine fragments And 11*10=110 pure fragments So 288*0.90+110*0.78=259.2+85.8=345 plat Not counting rerolls, slot unlocks, set foci, class foci, signs. And you'd need even more of that to rune your gear with all divine. So 400 plat to rune your gear even with the most basic runes. Edited October 23, 2015 by The God | |} ---- ---- When you start progression you need 0 fragments, as you will need usually few weeks for each boss... They have messed up with game difficulty and overall items drop since DS40, but not nearly as much to make you have that much gear on progression raid. Problem once again is in where you can get runes and it is only from very same raid you are progressing. Nobody will salvage items from progression raid and exchange doesn't solve problem, as said next raid tier and what 14 divine fragments for 1 new fragment and only place for efficient farming on dungs, so unless they will change something from current system you will need only 23520 superb fragments for 1 ilvl140 rune.... edit: When I first heard about exchange thing I was wondering, if they will go for "cheap system" with 2RF for next tier or "expensive system" with 4RF for next tier, so you would need 4-16 superbs for 1 divine fragment and 16-64 for 1 i140 rune fragment, instead we have 120 for divine and 1680 for i140. It makes whole system pointless. Not to mention it is not addressing issue, as with next raid tiers it will be impossible to farm those fragments. i160 would require 430080 superb fragments for 1 rune. i180 8709120 superb fragments for 1 rune.... For i160 maybe whole server have farmed during last 4 weeks, for i180 all servers did not. Even if it is far away it is better to have system ready for that... I would agree, that before patch it wasn't so important to go for the best, but in the end it was ~5% DMG, so some solution would be to have cheaper "ordinary" runes and price of exceptionals is OK (according to your calculation it is ok even now), without any changes to the system. So probably instead of one fragment thing they could just go for 1-2 RF for standard rune and 6-12 for exceptional, without changing anything else. It will only left alone farm "problem", as you would still have to go raid and raid only to get them. It has some perks within it, but no MMO can survive and attract players on - do raid or log off system, especially with weekly raid lock and two raids (3 if we include augumentor), that can be cleared in 5-6h. That's not even 1h/day. Edited October 23, 2015 by WANDAL | |} ---- Wat. You are an extreme exception. A normal player has no where near that amount of plat. Also time to play an alt =/= time to grind plat. If they spent time grinding plat, they would never be able to play their alt... | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- It's basically. Unless you do bgs a lot, don't expect to have a lot of plat. | |} ---- ---- Complete BS. I spend 1-2 hours a night in play-time and my total plat has barely budged. | |} ---- ---- This is just plain BS. It's Saturday, I've had two DS raids (only Water/Logic and Avatus left), probably about half a dozen of dungeons and a bit of open world stuff (so probably ~10h played since reset) and I'm still 10% short of the cap. | |} ---- Looking at the rate I, my friends, and the people I know get this done, this doesn't look correct. Everyone I know takes about twice as long to get there, both the raiders, those that just do dungeons, and those that just solo. Do you have permanent flask on? What activities do you partake of ingame ? | |} ---- It takes me most of the week to reach the EG cap, and sometimes I don't even reach it. Your numbers are completely bunk. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- dunno man i usually reach my EG limit on tuesdays with dungeons/evening raid in DS (mostly 2+ wings) and then every random dungeon you complete is 60g+ in gold + ~2-3 ilvl80s to dust + the glory so overall ~1p/stl in 8-9min. obv a bit longer for other dungeons. obv alot longer if you pug. but just yesterday with an alt i had a 13min stl run and noone in the group had ds gear. there was just no ilvl60 unruned slacker who died all the time so we did everything with 5 people who stayed alive and did their job properly. i had 78% EG with my alt after a GA run. we did all bosses/challenges. during progression you obv spend more gold than if you have it on farm. Just a tip (im sure you are aware anyway). if you jump off the platforms when the wipe is announced you wont have repair costs. so you only have the pot/bufffood/etc. Edited October 26, 2015 by furoflo | |} ---- Pardon me, but how in blazes do you get it on the first day of reset? Exactly how many hours do you usually play on this day ? | |} ---- ---- ---- That is very interesting. I'm guessing that some activities net a lot more than others. I've long been capped on all three of my toons this week. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- I will be at EG cap this evening. I work ~8 hours today, then go home eat/chill/watch a tv series when i get home. do 1-2h of vet dungeons with my guild and then raid 3-4h in DS. the cap is really easily reachable in vet dungeons if you just rush trough them with raidgear and 4-6x the groupdps the dungeons are designed for. this means you get xp/EG points 4-6x faster than a random pug would + there is no waiting time. you can add flask of xp for extra 10% if your guild has it unlocked. (i think this is bugged atm and gives too much xp-> gold) Signature status gives another 25% (i think) to xp so you get there 25% faster and then get 25% more gold if you are at EG cap. you can get around 90g just finishing stl with silver (rush trough it in 8-9min with 3-4 DS dds and 1 healer or tank) + glory + drops if you have max XP gain. thats > 10p/hour. 1GA run with my twink was 0->78% in 1.5-2h. If you dont have this possibilty farm expeditions with dungeon gear. its the same principle. Edited October 27, 2015 by furoflo | |} ---- So, I know we've discussed this before- and if I recall correctly, you are waiting to be able to get run sets before you go back into dungeons? I still believe this isn't really necessary- that you can throw simple runes in your gear and be good enough. I don't know esper (which is what I believe you are?), but I was able to heal through SSM on my slinger with ilvl 80 (ish) gear and a few non-exceptional runes. Even healed through the final boss standing in the water. Had to be smart about focus stones and such, but was able to keep up. Is it possible that you'd be OK just getting what runes you can afford now and then upgrading as you can from doing the dungeons? | |} ---- So, 4-6 hours. Ok, this is all I wanted to know. Thanks. The rest is pointless as this is not what I asked. | |} ---- It is what you asked (you asked how he did it). | |} ---- yea pardon me for giving advice. stupid me. Edited October 27, 2015 by furoflo | |} ---- Indeed. I was not interested in advice, I was interested in the time spent. Sorry for the imprecision or inability to convey that. My objective isn't to change my practices, I neither need to, want to, or even can. My objective was to try and have things make sense, which is far more important. EDIT: and to the poster above, sorry, that was more of a demonstration of shock than a true question. "How in blazes" or "How the *cupcake*" isn't usually how I phrase a question, and it is really just showing off how surprised I was. Edited October 27, 2015 by Timiniel | |} ---- ---- ---- if you really want to only know the time. if you effectively run dungeons.... max 2h till cap with xp flask. | |} ---- Ok, now I'm confused again. What happened to the 4-6 hour estimate given in the previous post ? Because that timeline sounded perfectly fine and coherent with what I'm seeing, but 2, again, sounds too low. | |} ---- if you do random vet dungeons as subscriber, with guild xp bonus unlocked and xp flask with a guild group that outgears the content you dont need >2h.the xp flask seems bugged right now and gives to much xp. i just did random 4 dungeons (i think we did 2x STL, 2x SC, 4x silver just rushing trough)and i had 84% in <1h. then 2.5h raiding and i made the last ~15% and afterwards >5p in DS farming bosses. I also thought it would take more time but that were my numbers on tuesday. i didnt play close to 6h or farmed 10 dungeons to get cap and since we had too many tanks i didnt raid 4h. | |} ---- ---- how fast do you clear the dungeons? we pretty much only do STL/KV/SC when we farm glory/gold and on average it takes like 10min/dungeon. did you try clearing them with all the xp bonuses? | |} ---- My argument isn't me vs you. It's now vs before, actually. Even stacking all flasks, guild bonus, signature, you still shouldn't be getting almost 380% exp when compared to pre-f2P when the only thing (that we know) that changed is the 25% exp bonus. | |} ---- ---- ---- carbine is known to take a long time to fix problems. Its due to a relatively small staff who get assigned to lots of problems but still take their time to test everything to make sure the game does run afterwards. Before patches get deployed on live server they can be tested a 2nd time on the PTR by everyone with a subscription (players often find more bugs because of the masses of eyes who look at the content and bugs dont always appear to everyone). thats another 1-2 weeks delay. then you have another few days to reproduce those reports and test internally again and decide whether or not to fix the bug now or later. So even if they are fast by assigning the the tasks and work efficiently there is just alot of work to do. Just because it looks easy to fix it does not mean they will only look at this or deploy a new build only for a few things. they have to see the bigger picture and be efficient with their resources. | |} ---- With all due respect (and I love you guys!), this doesn't square with the fusion rune changes you pushed out, out of nowhere. The rune fragment drop rate is something that can seriously cause burn out and is definitely putting a damper on actually getting rewards from being successful at the content. I'm a software developer, so I get the need to test and go through a cycle, but as far as I know, those rune changes were a surprise to everyone. Maybe the technical implementation was easy, but the effect on the player base- that should have been tested. At the very least, we should have had forewarning. Right now it has the feeling that you don't mind pushing out something that will cause a lot of people distress, that no one was asking for, all the while allowing a HUGE issue that affects most players to languish. | |} ---- ---- Not to mention the expense. This unannounced change has many people re-evaluating the utility of the fusions and considering swapping them to general sets. Now they need to scramble to put together a replacement rune and possibly pull the existing one (woo hoo! Service Token sale ka-ching!) It's all inter-related. By pushing this change out now you've reopened the wounds caused by the utterly broken rune fragment and foci availability and the heavy handed emphasis on Service Token sales because people are going to have to choose from a set of very bad choices. We can continue to play with a gimped rune. We can replace that fusion rune with a non-fusion and oh by the way dump a ton of plat (because that option is still stupidly overpriced) into rerolling it or spend more Service Tokens (ka-ching!). Or just give up and find another game. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- This is in dire need of a re-think. Unbounded RNG has to go. Either make it a reasonable flat rate (unlike that giant middle finger you gave us for the extract costs) or each subsequent roll halves the cost. 27, 13, 6, 3, 1... Anything less and you're forcing players into Service Tokens which is a really disgusting tactic. Edited November 25, 2015 by PlasmaJohn | |} ---- Yes! Spending 5 plat re-rolling a slot trying to get one of two colors is just terrible. And then you end up spending a service token anyway, but not you're broke :( This is *not* a fun mechanic. Halving the costs on subsequent re-rolls would work to make the colors meaningful without the "I just blew several hours worth of plat and got nothing for it" feeling, which is just awful. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- You should look forward to your BIS gear dropping because surely you can spend some real dollary doos on rerolling some slots if you don't want to spend the ingame gold? Support the game you enjoy playing, you'd spend more on a few beers or a single meal out. IMO spending some service tokens on BIS gear really isn't that much of an ask. I have enough Omnibits from 2 months of playing to buy a 300 pack of service tokens and don't really have any problems with buying more with real money as I've been playing this excellent game for two months and haven't had to spend a single dollar. TLDR; People be like "I can't believe this game I enjoy and play completely for free, offers RL cash options to make things easier. Bastards!" Edited December 7, 2015 by H3rboss | |} ---- You don't get why this is a completely turn off? I honestly thought your first statement was sarcasm until I read the rest of your post and realized you were serious. There are lots of ways for Carbine to monetize the game. Incentivizing people to pay them when they receive rewards for being successful in the game is not a good one. | |} ---- ---- I honestly don't understand the frustration here. Wildstar has the single fairest free to play model, especially coming from a sub game. Another game that I consider very fair is rift and you guys wouldn't be able to handle it (earings would cause you to riot, even tho they gave the community an entire expansion for free, one gear slot behind either a time or pay wall would cause you to flip shit). I mean, for *cupcake*s sake, if they can't charge for dyes what CAN they charge for? Star wars the old republic locks you out of dungeons, keeps you from having full access to the *cupcake*ing UI, limits how much you can chat and basically blocks you from the trading post entirely. You don't have access to a giant chunk of the content if you are playing free, you're a second class citizen. Look at Runescape. If you aren't subbed there is about 3/4 of the game blocked off to you and most of the gear plus most of the stats/quests. The list goes on, and yet you guys have the balls to complain. Switching runes is more expensive. Woopty freaking doo! You CAN still do it with in game currency for *cupcake*s sake! There are games out there that would say oh, you want to switch runes? *cupcake* you, give us real life cash. This game has a gold option. Oh, another game that does that? Guild Wars 2, a very fair model. Noone complains and like in Wildstar runes are vitaly important to a build and yet the rune extractor (the only way to get a rune out guaranteed without destroying the orriginal item) is a gem store item. Can you get it with gold? Yes. But the gold cost is higher than any rune in the game. This game is FREE. All the content is FREE. Yes, I think Bits/coins/tokens etc should be given to Signature players but complaining about this game being pay to win is outrageous. They have to make money and I'd rather pay for dyes then dungeons. And no, I'm not a free player, I bought the game before F2P. | |} ---- ---- Noone is saying that the game is pay to win, and then you compare it to SWTOR, which is the worst possible scenario.Let's not be extreme. Noone is going to waste real money to use Service tokens for Dye application/ Fast travel/ Transmat, but the increased dye apply costs indicate that they thought: "If we can even get 1% income out of this we're going to do it." which is sad. On the rune system, you have people who bought the game(like me) and payed multiple subscriptions, and then F2P comes along wiping all their runes. Then, to be able to reach the power they had previously, they have to pay real money to buy new runes fast. Very cool to the loyal subs. | |} ---- ---- ---- The problem is that if too many people simply give up on raiding because of runeing costs (like players are facing problems before they even step into a raid), then WS loses their source of money at endgame. They have to have some way to get more people to raid or this game is gonna sink if that's their main source of income. The gear isn't doing a good enough job if it's gonna take a lot of money to rune it up. | |} ---- ---- ----